. . . why, whatever can you be thinking?
I pinched it directly from Jihad Watch as both the excerpts from MEMRI and the introduction by Mr Spencer are extremely valuable and delineate between Westernised or Folk Islam and Sharia based Islam - that which is erroneously called Islamism. In fact it is simply historical Islam full stop. This is the Islam based on the Qur'an and the Sunna of Muhammad that has been implemented throughout fourteen centuries while all attempts to "moderate" it have been dealt with as heresy. But this is the Islam that Western governments seem determined to encourage for their own peculiar reasons.
As I have mentioned often in the past, not to deal honestly with Islam as it is will only lead to huge problems and to the eventual stigmatising of all Muslims as Sharia supremacists. Plainly there are many who are, but equally there are many who are not, such people are not our enemies but they run the real risk of being treated as such if things continue on the current trajectory.
Enjoy the read and remember - the people discussing this are Muslims themselves (Hamed Abdel-Samad is the son of an Imam and an ex-member of the Muslim Brotherhood) who seek to form Islam into exactly the thing that so many in authority in the West claim it already is - peaceful & moderate. You'd think they would have overwhelming support for their work from authorities. But perhaps to do so would mean admitting that there is something disturbing about traditional Islam that needs reforming.
And that, apparently, would never do.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we start to deceive."
Robert Spencer's introduction:~
I don’t generally use the word “Islamist” myself, as it is too often used in order to establish some artificial distance between aggressive, violent, imperialist and supremacist political Islam and a supposedly benign ordinary Islam. But in every other respect, Said Shoaib and Hamed Abdel-Samad say in this important interview things that I have said for years: that Western politicians who make pronouncements about Islam are naive and ignorant, that charges of “Islamophobia” are used in order to mask an insidious agenda, and that Islamic supremacists and jihadis aim to destroy Western civilization, as the Muslim Brotherhood stated in a captured internal document.
Are Said Shoaib and Hamed Abdel-Samad “ignorant Islamophobes”? Are they “racist bigots”? Or do they speak unwelcome truths that are no less true for being unwelcome?
Egyptian writer: “The main plan of the Islamists is to destroy Western civilization. They said so themselves!”
“Egyptian-Canadian Writer Said Shoaib: Western Imams Who Praise Islamic Caliphate Are Terrorists; Western Politicians Don’t Know What is Really Being Taught in Western Mosques,” MEMRI, January 14, 2019:
"During an interview with German-Egyptian political scientist and author Hamed Abdel-Samad that was uploaded to Abdel-Samad’s YouTube channel on January 14, 2019, Egyptian-Canadian writer Said Shoaib said that imams in the West embrace colonialist Islam and deceive Westerners by talking about the “greatness of the Islamic caliphate”. He said that these things constitute a form of terrorism that might become armed terrorism should the opportunity present itself, and that the West has failed to realize this. Shoaib explained that this form of Islamism is being taught in mosques and in Islamic schools throughout the West, and that the natural course of such education is terrorism. Hamed Abdel-Samad added that the same Muslims who show enmity to other religions in their home countries come to the West and criticize Christians, Jews, the West, and secularism while demanding that nobody criticizes Islam.
Abdel-Samad also said that the Canadian government is naïve, and he criticized Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s “romantic” fantasy that everybody should “hold hands and hug and kiss one another.” Abdel-Samad said that Trudeau doesn’t know what is really being taught in Canadian mosques and Shohaib said that Western politicians don’t know anything about Islam. Shohaib said that “a lot of blood will be shed here in the West”, and that if Western politicians fail to stop the terrorist “wave” in the West, ordinary citizens will become more inclined to elect increasingly “extreme” leaders. He added: “The main plan of the Islamists is to destroy Western civilization. They have said it themselves!”
Following are excerpts:
Said Shoaib: The imams here do something that deceives many people, especially in the West. They talk, for example, about the greatness of the Islamic caliphate. Does this constitute terrorism? It does. The [Westerners] do not realize that this is terrorism. When you embrace the notion of a colonialist Islam that raids nations, takes them over, and controls them – you are a terrorist. You are an unarmed terrorist, until the opportunity presents itself…
I sent my Arabic books that are against political Islam to a library here [in Canada]. I was happy to find here a book of mine, which had nothing to do with Islam. I wanted to donate my books to them because they had just opened up. So I gave them two books against political Islam, but that public library rejected them. They sent me formal mail…
Hamed Abdel-Samad: They probably cited “Islamophobia”…
Said Shoaib: They told me that my books are in violation of Canadian values.
Hamed Abdel-Samad: These values welcomes violent Islam but reject criticism of political Islam?
Said Shoaib: I take a stand against people who hate Canada and want to destroy it. These people have stated that this is their intention. They even said so in books that this library approved, can you believe that? A normal Muslim – whether he was born here or whether he immigrated – has no alternative form of Islam. You find this form of Islam in the mosques, in the sermons… This is the form of Islam that you see in the Islamic schools here. I did not send my daughters to Islamic schools here, out of fear. They conceal their curricula, force young girls to war the hijab, and so on… If a Muslim here does not become a terrorist, he must be a great man. We should thank him for being a good, peace-loving human being, because the natural course of events is for him to become a terrorist.
Hamed Abdel-Samad: A strange thing is that when these people lived in their countries of origin, they did not allow the Christians to build churches, they despised the Christians and the Baha’is, and they did not help people of other religions with their rights. But when they come to the West, they not only demand their right to worship, and their right to practice their religious rites freely, but they also demand that no one criticize their religion. Here in Canada, they audaciously criticize the Christians, the Jews, the West, and secularism… There is no such thing as “secular-phobia”… There is no “Christian-phobia”…
Said Shoaib: And no “Zoroastrian-phobia.” This was invented by the Islamists.
Hamed Abdel-Samad: The problem is that the Islamists are the people most contemptuous of other religions.
Said Shoaib: Yes, of course.
Hamed Abdel-Samad: But when they come here, they want a law to prevent criticism of their religion. Another strange things is that a naïve government like the Canadian one… I know I am a guest here, but I say what I think everywhere… The prime minister of this naïve government [Justin Trudeau] is very strange. According to his naïve and romantic fantasy, everybody should hold hands and hug and kiss one another. Yet he does not know what these people teach in their mosques.
Said Shoaib: I am baffled by the Canadian politicians who talk about Islam. They don’t know Islam. If you want to learn about Islam, you can ask us. Do not ask just people of one type. Another big mistake in Canada and the West is that representatives of the Muslim [community] are the Islamists.
A lot of blood will be shed here in the West, and the Muslims will pay the price. They will be number one… If the politicians in the West do not know how to stop this [terrorist] wave, the ordinary Westerners will choose the most extremist [leader]. There are indications for that. Trump has won in America. The Conservative party has won the government of Ontario. More extreme people are yet to come. If today’s politicians fail to provide security for the people in the West, they will take matters into their own hands. And who will be the victims? The normal Muslims who have nothing to do with this.
The main plan of the Islamists is to destroy Western civilization. They said so themselves!