"What happens when a masochist meets a real sadist?"
Also discussed is the place of Christianity. Starting from the 43 minute mark the secular atheist Mr Murray has a lot to say about the need for the West to recognise that its whole worldview is based on Christianity. He agrees with Cardinal Ratzinger (the previous Pope) that we need to live like we believe in God whether or not we do and states that Europe is waking up to the realisation that it is Christian - which is a glorious insight. He ends another glorious insight: people matter and people can make a huge change if they engage with the issues.
I resonate with so much of what he said. He examines these serious questions in a relaxed interview which I recommend. A valuable piece of self-examination for the West. Yes, I have ordered his book. Grab a coffee and sit back.